Howitzer's range?

[1.JaVA_Jojo]

Nov 8, 2011 5:42:57 GMT -5 JG26_Nuke said:

It's as simple as this: in-game attack ranges has been changed since we moved to HSFX (April 28th). But the Costs table hasn't been updated so the ranges shown there were from UP and obsolete. Only thing changed now was the Costs table to represent the real values we have been using since April.

Dear Nuke, this might seem simple and innocent to you and you may call me dumb, but:

I use the Cost table all the time, and i know Sjonnie does as well. And we take the values from there when we plan.
We were simply NOT aware of the fact that range-values of Artillery have changed since April (transition to HSFX)

While you guys did, obviously ( ) and no one bothered to tell us.

So, we are using wrong calculations since April. Great.

You simply cannot be serious when you write: : "it is as it is"
At least not for me!

Now I have a clarification about the ineffectiviness of our Long-Range guns, and I'm not pleased.

I try to commit to this campaign, I know we all do.
But to keep it fair and hold away frustration, someone should have told us! But no, you were and

Suppose that we did it the way you did...what would you say, how would you feel??

[JG26_Nuke]

If this reassures you: none of us knew about this change either. To be more precise, I posted an .xls as an info extraction of the technics file on Sept 21th, after we had experienced the weird effects on the ranges and I looked into the file for an explanation. I see now that should have told you about this, I'm sorry. Honestly, I didn't hold the information back to gain an advantage over you, I don't think anyone on our side wants to cheat either, that'd basically take the fun out of this.

[LW/JG10_Luny]

I do not see why your long range artillery was ineffective as the values were changed for all the weapons. Either 6000 or 10000, both guns got the same values and should have been effective at these ranges if, of course, were well aimed at the targets.
As Nuke says, we didn't knew about that and didn't use the info to gain advantage (actually we were surprised about the long range of the bofors wich moved me to look into the Wikipedia to confirm that).
There was another "problem" with the AT sections range. While the blue ones were just 150 m (a fact that I noticed right after St. Quentin assault) the red ones remained at 800. I told 4Shades and Badger about that but this value was never changed until, probably, now.
So, all our calculations regarding the AT sections were wrong too...

[1.JaVA_Jojo]

OK, good..these answers give clarity, to me at least.

TX for responding guys..and I hope I didn't kick anyone's shin's

See you next mission!

[4shades]

Just from background from my perspective:

1. This is Badger's campaign, not mine. He has done a great job, we all agree. While Badger's PC was in intensive care, I helped keep the campaign running. I did not see it as my job to change campaign settings or range values etc unless absolutely necessary and by common agreement.

2. I think there is some confusion about the purpose of the different technics and engagement (hold fire) range parameters. First, the technics range parameters. These tell IL-2 how far specific gun types can fire, i.e. the maximum range possible if the gun fires. Simple. Second, the SEOW engagement ranges listed in the Object_Specifications table (equivalent to the FMB "Hold Fire" parameter) tell IL-2 at what range a specific object (gun, ship, tank, infantry) will first open fire at an approaching enemy unit. Once a gun has opened fire, it is free to shoot to its maximum range (the technics value) if it cannot see any closer enemy units.

So we see that a howitzer of technics range 10 km may never shoot at all if its SEOW engagement range is only 1 metre. If the engagement range is 6 km, and the closest enemy units in LOS are at 6.5 km, then it will still never shoot. If, as may recently have happened in Fall Gelb, the engagement range is changed to be consistent with the technics range, enemy units that were previously outside the old engagement range are now inside the new engagement range, and the howitzer will shoot.

I think we all know that some of the old engagement ranges used in the campaign were a little uneven. Badger has now corrected/improved this situation, and I thank him for it. It would have been better to discuss the change beforehand, but the intentions were honest and the implications were not immediately clear anyway. Both sides will adapt.

And, most importantly, I am still having a ball in the campaign, evading the marauding Axis fighters while completing my recon missions...

Cheers,
4Shades